je rec koju cete retko cuti ali opisuje moj osecaj kada sam slucajno u setnji nacula sledeci razgovor...naime, setali smo po naselju sa klincima predvece i u povratku sam nacula poznati dijalekat u razgovoru dvojice ljudi ispred mene, prvo mi se ucinilo da je rumunski ili bugarski ali kada sam malo bolje oslusnula ispalo je da nije...A razgovor je tekao otprilike ovako- sin u svojim dvadesetim, lep crnokos momak i otac u kasnim pedesetim ili ranim sezdesetim pogrbljen sa rukama cvrsto stisnutim na ledjima, hodaju putem, sin prica , otac cuti...
Znas tata, ja to necu tako dozvoliti, ja hocu da moje deca ide u srpsku skola, da uci jezik, ja hocu da podizem moje deca u duhu pravoslavlja i svete srpske vere...
ti i mama mene niste usmerili tako i meni je krivo,vi niste mene dovoljno, hocu da moja deca bude srbi...
a ona ako nece to da prihvati, da moja deca idu u srpsku skolu i crkvu, onda neka ide, onda ce svako na svoju stranu...
Pogledala sam oca sazaljivo, cutao je i gledao u beton pod stopalima, stiskao je ruke u pesnice na ledjima i stiskao je usne da ne progovori, mladic je nastavio da sa najgorim naglaskom i potpuno pogresnom gramatikom velica veru, nebeski narod i svoje iluzije o tome kako ce sve u zivotu biti kako on kaze ... pitala sam se da li mu je neko strucno isprao mozak ili ima krizu identiteta pa je previse visio na pogresnim stranicama interneta...
A onda me je prosla jeza...a sta ako, su oni krili isto kao i mi sve to lose zeleci da zaborave ili jos gore pricali lepe stvari o zemlji sa kojom su mislili da im deca nece imati neke velike veze pa im se sad ovako vratilo... Sad dete zeli da im bude veci srbin od srba, iako jedva natuca jezik i ima verovatno potpuno pogresnu sliku o pravoj srbiji, mozda nije ni bio tamo nego jednom u posetu rodbini...Sad je spreman da rastura brak koji jos nije sklopio, i oduzima decu zeni koju jos nema zarad nekih verskih ideala...zarad neceg sto mu je neko ulio u glavu ili je pronasao na internetu i nezarazen nasom paranojom, koji smo dobro ispekli zanat verujuci da ce tamo biti bolje i da ce se postenje isplatiti i sve promeniti, na kraju pobegli polu slomljeni i umorni od pogresnih verovanja, ne ukaljan nasim iskustvom on je poverovao u neku drugu sliku i pricu, bez ikakvog razloga da sumnja u njenu istinitost.
flab·ber·gast·ed, flab·ber·gast·ing, flab·ber·gasts. To cause to be overcome with astonishment; astound
To je ta rec...
Da ne verujes svojim usima, i razgovor se nastavio u istom stilu, otac je i dalje cutao povremeno stezuci pesnice iz ledja, dok mu decko prebacivao nedostatak srpstva i zustro se svadjao sa svojim nesudjenim protivnicima i neistomisljenicima u buducnosti...
Pitala sam se gde ljudi grese, da li ih treba podizati da budu stranci u zemlji u kojoj zive ili da budu deo nje i da zaborave svoje korene, na kraju krajeva meni to nije bitno jer ja ne zivim u proslosti, ali mozda ce njima jednog dana neko napuniti glavu, ili ce trazeci sebe pronaci internet...i drugacije slike od onih koje ja pamtim...drugaciju istinu...
I iskreno, strah me je
i od same pomisli.
A moja istina bi bila otrov sipan u njihova iskrena decja srca,
zar stvarno treba da znaju za svu mrznju i deljenja na vere, nacije i boju koze, za nepravde, za ratove, za lose ljude, za dobre ljudi koji pate zbog losih,za vodje i tirane...za krize, glad i bedu, za beznadje...za sve sto pokusavam da sakrijem od njih i da ih zastitim od tog,
jel ja treba da im punim glavu time?
Pa moje dete ni ne primecuje razlike, igra se jednako sa svom decom, nebitno na pol i boju koze,nema pojma o religiji i bogovima...Njemu se ljudi dele na njegove drugare koji zive u Waterloo i Kiceneru i one koji zive u Torontu...
Vec je poceo da pita, zasto je on rodjen tamo, zasto smo mi otisli, i zasto je ta zemlja siromasna - zakljucio iz nase price kako tamo nema takvih igralista za decu i parkova, splash centara i igraonica, kako skole nisu imale igracke i kompjutere kad su mama i tata isli u skolu, imali smo samo stolice, klupe i tablu, kako nema puno stvari koje se ovde podrazumevaju)bar ne tamo gde smo mi ziveli, ne sumnjam da u Beogradu ima svega), kako mama i tata nisu imali posla i para, nade za buducnost,kako samo pokusavamo da ih zastitimo od onoga sto je moglo da im se desi tamo, koliko toga jedno dete moze da razume u ovom uzrastu ?
"Prošlost je grozan, mutan bezdan. što u taj mrak ode, ne postoji više, i nije nikad ni postojalo..."
Seobe, M. Crnjanski
I evo dodala sam ovaj blog na zahtev autora :))
http://upreriji.blogspot.ca/
i ovaj jer mi se dopada
http://maple-leaf-adventure.blogspot.ca/
Friday, August 22, 2014
Thursday, August 14, 2014
Word of advice
Sto duze zivis ovde vise imas sanse da iskusis ovdasnje verzije nepravdi, cisto da ne bude da ih nema, i uglavnom se svode na birokratske zackoljice bar iz mog licnog iskustva.
Evo na primer trudnicko, kada si na trudnickom i koristis EI, to je osiguranje u slucaju nezaposlenosti, tretiraju te kao da si nezaposlen i ako te poslodavac otpusti u medjuvremenu )sto je dozvoljeno, za ontario znam 100% za ostalo treba iscitati papirologije)nemas pravo da i dalje primas EI. Tako na primer majke koje su uplacivale 10 godina EI otisle na materinsko i dobile otkaz posle godinu dana kada su se vratile na posao, a desava se cesce nego sto mislite, nemaju pravo ni na kakvu pomoc.Isto tako trudnice koje nisu uspele da zarade svojih propisanih 500 plus sati pre porodjaja nemaju pravo na EI.
Drugi savet koji zelim da vam dam je ako ste vec u Kanadi i razmisljate da podnesete za koju godinu papire za drzavljanstvo, idite na neki od besplatnih kurseva koji su priznati od strane imigracionog kao dokaz o znanju jezika isecak ovde :
2. Language Proof if you are 18-54 years of age
Select one of the following types of proof to submit with your application:
Results of a CIC-approved third-party test at the equivalent of Canadian Language Benchmark (CLB/NCLC) [Note 1] level 4 or higher in speaking and listening skills done previously for immigration purposes (even expired) or done specifically for citizenship purposes only. Test results from the following list are acceptable:
Canadian English Language Proficiency Index Program General test (CELPIP-G), (not the academic version) You must have achieved a score of:
2H or higher (3L, 3H, 4L, 4H, 5 or 6) in speaking and listening; or
CELPIP-General LS – a two-skills (listening and speaking) version of the CELPIP general test You must have achieved a score of:2H or higher (3L, 3H, 4L, 4H, 5 or 6) in listening and speaking; or
International English Language Testing System (IELTS), general training, not the academic version You must have achieved a score of:
4.0 or higher in speaking, and
4.5 or higher in listening. (If the test was done before November 28, 2008, we will accept a 4 or higher); or
Test d’Évaluation de Français (TEF), Test d’Évaluation du Français adapté au Québec (TEFAQ) or TEF épreuves orales.
After July 1st, 2012, you must have achieved a score of :
B1 or higher (B2, C1 or C2) in listening; and
B1 or higher (B2, C1 or C2) in speaking.
Before July 1st, 2012, you must have achieved a score of:
Level 3 or higher (4, 5 or 6) in listening; and
Level 3 or higher (4, 5 or 6) in speaking.
The following list of proof will be accepted only if used for Quebec immigration purposes in the past:
DALF (Diplôme approfondi de langue française) – All results or
DELF (Diplôme d’études en langue française) – B1 or higher or
TCF (Test de connaissance du français) – B1 or higher or
TCFQ (Test de connaissance du français pour le Québec) – B1 or higher
Proof of completion of secondary or post-secondary education in French or English includes:
A diploma or transcripts from a secondary or post-secondary school indicating the successful completion of a program, in Canada or abroad. or
A diploma or certificate from a secondary or post-secondary school indicating successful graduation, in Canada or abroad.
Note:You must have successfully finished a secondary or post-secondary program in English or French. A single course done in English or French does not meet the requirement. The diploma, certificate or transcript should be in English or French. The document must clearly show that the program was completed with English or French as the language of instruction. If the original document is not in English or French then you must also include a letter in English or French from the institution indicating that the language of instruction was in English or French along with a translation of the original document.
Proof of achieving Canadian Language Benchmark/Niveau de competence linguistique canadien (CLB/NCLC) level 4 or higher in speaking and listening skills through certain government-funded language training programs are:
For Manitoba: Progress report from Manitoba government issued since January 2009. Ensure your report indicates speaking and listening skills are at least at “completing CLB/NCLC level 4” or higher.
For Quebec: Bulletins by the Ministère de l’Immigration, de la Diversité et de l’Inclusion (MIDI)
Version issued since June 2001. Ensure that your most recent assessment in “ interaction orale” is at least level 4 (Échelle québécoise); or
Version issued since October 2012:
1. Bulletin showing results in “interaction orale”. Ensure that your most recent assessment in “interaction orale” is at least level 4 (Échelle québécoise); or
2. Bulletin issued since October 16th, 2012 showing results in “interaction orale” OR showing results in both “comprehension orale” and “production orale”only. Usually, these start with the course code FIA Ensure that your most recent assessment in “interaction orale” OR both “comprehension orale” and “production orale” is at least level 4 (Échelle québécoise)
NOTE: Bulletin with results from online FEL (Francisation en ligne) classes are not acceptable for citizenship purposes, e.g. these usually have a course code B or FEL.
For British Columbia (BC):
If you received British Columbia’s English Language Services for Adults (ELSA) training in 2008 and 2009, an ELSA certificate confirming language level CLB 4 or higher.
If you received British Columbia’s English Language Services for Adults (ELSA) training since 2010, an ELSA report card or an ELSA certificate confirming language level CLB 4 or higher
For Ontario: Ontario Provincial Language Training Certificate issued by the Ontario Ministry of Citizenship and Immigration (MCI) funded language training providers (school boards) in or after December 2013. Ensure your Ontario MCI Adult Non-Credit language training program certificate indicates achievement of level CLB/NCLC 4 or higher, in speaking and listening. These certificates must be for:
English as a Second Language (ESL)/Anglais Langue Seconde (ALS)
French as a Second Language (FSL)/Français Langue Seconde (FLS)
Citizenship and Language Training (CL)/Instruction civique et enseignement de la langue (ICEL)
Language Instruction for Newcomers to Canada (LINC or CLIC): Check the box if you successfully completed the course at CLB4/NCLC 4 or higher from January 2008 to October 31, 2012 and provide a copy of the certificate if available. If you successfully completed the LINC or CLIC course since November 1st, 2012, a certificate will be provided to you. A copy of this certificate is required. Note that completion of LINC or CLIC before 2008 does not qualify for proof of language ability.
to je jedna opcija da ne placate 200 ili vise dolara i morate da polazete test jezika ponovo, IELTS ili CELPIP.
Jer, mi smo presretni sto su nam po dolasku rekli da nam je znanje jezika savrseno i stavili nas na nivo CLB osam plus, prihvatili to sto su nam rekli u YMCA da nema svrhe da idemo na njihov BESPLATAN kurs jer vec sve znamo a i kurs ide samo do ocene CLB 7...
Super, ali birokrate u CIC ne prihvataju prvi test procene- initial assesment na kom smo dobili te ocene, i traze da smo ipak isli na kurs...
Tako da sad po ko zna koji put ponovo moram da placam i da se cimam i da dokazujem da LJudi moji ja znam engleski!
Nema veze sto smo vec polagali IELTS, i sto imam gomilu Evropskih nivoa...
Tako da ako ne zelite da placate i idete ponovo na test, ili iskopajte negde stari IELTS koji ste predavali za dolazak ili pravac prva imigrantska organizacija i besplatan LINC!
Cim dobijete papir sa pecatom na kom pise da ste dogurali do ocene CLB 4 ili vece, mozete da prestanete da idete na kurs...
Jos jedna stvar koju sam zaboravila da napomenem
pri predavanju papira traze da svi clanovi porodice predaju dokumenta u istoj aplikaciji, ali ako jedan clan ima neki "problem" citava aplikacija, znaci svi fajlovi se vracaju postom, jedan taj krug traje oko 2-3 meseca...tako da ako imate nekog u porodici ko je dosta vremena proveo van kanade, putovao u usa itd, bolje ga odvojite od ostalih jer moze da se desi da za svaki dan, datum traze obrazlozenje...i to moze da potraje godinu dana sa njihovom 3 meseca za odgovor prepiskom...inace cekanje moze da potraje od godinu dana na test pa do 4-5 da konacno dobijes papire ne racunajuci one prve 4 godine koje moras da provedes ovde da bi aplicirao.
Nazalost znam ljude koji su vec godinama zarobljeni u birokratiji a da nisu culi ni rec od njih, na svu srecu produzenje PR kartice je relativno jednostavno i kosta 50 $.
Mi smo se nazalost zaglavili u istoj situaciji.
Prvo smo dobili papire nazad posle 3 meseca od predavanja, pisalo je da su moja i acina aplikacija prihvacene ali za klinca ne jer nisam popunila gde je moje dete bilo prethodne 2 godine, ja naravno jesam sve popunila i 10 puta proverila ali su oni videli da je njemu istekao bebeci pasos koji traje 2 godine i nisu imali pokrice za one druge 2 za koje mu nismo vadili pasos jer nismo nigde isli, i kako ja sad njima da objasnim ? Morala sam da pisem i potpisujem izjavu da je moje dete bilo samnom, pobogu pa gde bi bilo...
E onda posle oko 4 meseca opet stizu svi papiri nazad, sad je neko prepravio da moja aplikacija nije prihvacena, pogadjate, nece da prihvate dokaz znanja jezika, 2 nedelje telefonskih razgovora i 5 agenata cica kasnije prijavljujemo testove...ajmo jovo nanovo.
Za sve to vreme aplikacija koja traje tacno devedeset dana, zastareva tako da sad moram da popunjavam nove papire i saljem nova dokumenta.Cim za jedno sredim, vrate mi za drugo, pa za trece i tako prodje godina...
Evo na primer trudnicko, kada si na trudnickom i koristis EI, to je osiguranje u slucaju nezaposlenosti, tretiraju te kao da si nezaposlen i ako te poslodavac otpusti u medjuvremenu )sto je dozvoljeno, za ontario znam 100% za ostalo treba iscitati papirologije)nemas pravo da i dalje primas EI. Tako na primer majke koje su uplacivale 10 godina EI otisle na materinsko i dobile otkaz posle godinu dana kada su se vratile na posao, a desava se cesce nego sto mislite, nemaju pravo ni na kakvu pomoc.Isto tako trudnice koje nisu uspele da zarade svojih propisanih 500 plus sati pre porodjaja nemaju pravo na EI.
Drugi savet koji zelim da vam dam je ako ste vec u Kanadi i razmisljate da podnesete za koju godinu papire za drzavljanstvo, idite na neki od besplatnih kurseva koji su priznati od strane imigracionog kao dokaz o znanju jezika isecak ovde :
2. Language Proof if you are 18-54 years of age
Select one of the following types of proof to submit with your application:
Results of a CIC-approved third-party test at the equivalent of Canadian Language Benchmark (CLB/NCLC) [Note 1] level 4 or higher in speaking and listening skills done previously for immigration purposes (even expired) or done specifically for citizenship purposes only. Test results from the following list are acceptable:
Canadian English Language Proficiency Index Program General test (CELPIP-G), (not the academic version) You must have achieved a score of:
2H or higher (3L, 3H, 4L, 4H, 5 or 6) in speaking and listening; or
CELPIP-General LS – a two-skills (listening and speaking) version of the CELPIP general test You must have achieved a score of:2H or higher (3L, 3H, 4L, 4H, 5 or 6) in listening and speaking; or
International English Language Testing System (IELTS), general training, not the academic version You must have achieved a score of:
4.0 or higher in speaking, and
4.5 or higher in listening. (If the test was done before November 28, 2008, we will accept a 4 or higher); or
Test d’Évaluation de Français (TEF), Test d’Évaluation du Français adapté au Québec (TEFAQ) or TEF épreuves orales.
After July 1st, 2012, you must have achieved a score of :
B1 or higher (B2, C1 or C2) in listening; and
B1 or higher (B2, C1 or C2) in speaking.
Before July 1st, 2012, you must have achieved a score of:
Level 3 or higher (4, 5 or 6) in listening; and
Level 3 or higher (4, 5 or 6) in speaking.
The following list of proof will be accepted only if used for Quebec immigration purposes in the past:
DALF (Diplôme approfondi de langue française) – All results or
DELF (Diplôme d’études en langue française) – B1 or higher or
TCF (Test de connaissance du français) – B1 or higher or
TCFQ (Test de connaissance du français pour le Québec) – B1 or higher
Proof of completion of secondary or post-secondary education in French or English includes:
A diploma or transcripts from a secondary or post-secondary school indicating the successful completion of a program, in Canada or abroad. or
A diploma or certificate from a secondary or post-secondary school indicating successful graduation, in Canada or abroad.
Note:You must have successfully finished a secondary or post-secondary program in English or French. A single course done in English or French does not meet the requirement. The diploma, certificate or transcript should be in English or French. The document must clearly show that the program was completed with English or French as the language of instruction. If the original document is not in English or French then you must also include a letter in English or French from the institution indicating that the language of instruction was in English or French along with a translation of the original document.
Proof of achieving Canadian Language Benchmark/Niveau de competence linguistique canadien (CLB/NCLC) level 4 or higher in speaking and listening skills through certain government-funded language training programs are:
For Manitoba: Progress report from Manitoba government issued since January 2009. Ensure your report indicates speaking and listening skills are at least at “completing CLB/NCLC level 4” or higher.
For Quebec: Bulletins by the Ministère de l’Immigration, de la Diversité et de l’Inclusion (MIDI)
Version issued since June 2001. Ensure that your most recent assessment in “ interaction orale” is at least level 4 (Échelle québécoise); or
Version issued since October 2012:
1. Bulletin showing results in “interaction orale”. Ensure that your most recent assessment in “interaction orale” is at least level 4 (Échelle québécoise); or
2. Bulletin issued since October 16th, 2012 showing results in “interaction orale” OR showing results in both “comprehension orale” and “production orale”only. Usually, these start with the course code FIA Ensure that your most recent assessment in “interaction orale” OR both “comprehension orale” and “production orale” is at least level 4 (Échelle québécoise)
NOTE: Bulletin with results from online FEL (Francisation en ligne) classes are not acceptable for citizenship purposes, e.g. these usually have a course code B or FEL.
For British Columbia (BC):
If you received British Columbia’s English Language Services for Adults (ELSA) training in 2008 and 2009, an ELSA certificate confirming language level CLB 4 or higher.
If you received British Columbia’s English Language Services for Adults (ELSA) training since 2010, an ELSA report card or an ELSA certificate confirming language level CLB 4 or higher
For Ontario: Ontario Provincial Language Training Certificate issued by the Ontario Ministry of Citizenship and Immigration (MCI) funded language training providers (school boards) in or after December 2013. Ensure your Ontario MCI Adult Non-Credit language training program certificate indicates achievement of level CLB/NCLC 4 or higher, in speaking and listening. These certificates must be for:
English as a Second Language (ESL)/Anglais Langue Seconde (ALS)
French as a Second Language (FSL)/Français Langue Seconde (FLS)
Citizenship and Language Training (CL)/Instruction civique et enseignement de la langue (ICEL)
Language Instruction for Newcomers to Canada (LINC or CLIC): Check the box if you successfully completed the course at CLB4/NCLC 4 or higher from January 2008 to October 31, 2012 and provide a copy of the certificate if available. If you successfully completed the LINC or CLIC course since November 1st, 2012, a certificate will be provided to you. A copy of this certificate is required. Note that completion of LINC or CLIC before 2008 does not qualify for proof of language ability.
to je jedna opcija da ne placate 200 ili vise dolara i morate da polazete test jezika ponovo, IELTS ili CELPIP.
Jer, mi smo presretni sto su nam po dolasku rekli da nam je znanje jezika savrseno i stavili nas na nivo CLB osam plus, prihvatili to sto su nam rekli u YMCA da nema svrhe da idemo na njihov BESPLATAN kurs jer vec sve znamo a i kurs ide samo do ocene CLB 7...
Super, ali birokrate u CIC ne prihvataju prvi test procene- initial assesment na kom smo dobili te ocene, i traze da smo ipak isli na kurs...
Tako da sad po ko zna koji put ponovo moram da placam i da se cimam i da dokazujem da LJudi moji ja znam engleski!
Nema veze sto smo vec polagali IELTS, i sto imam gomilu Evropskih nivoa...
Tako da ako ne zelite da placate i idete ponovo na test, ili iskopajte negde stari IELTS koji ste predavali za dolazak ili pravac prva imigrantska organizacija i besplatan LINC!
Cim dobijete papir sa pecatom na kom pise da ste dogurali do ocene CLB 4 ili vece, mozete da prestanete da idete na kurs...
Jos jedna stvar koju sam zaboravila da napomenem
pri predavanju papira traze da svi clanovi porodice predaju dokumenta u istoj aplikaciji, ali ako jedan clan ima neki "problem" citava aplikacija, znaci svi fajlovi se vracaju postom, jedan taj krug traje oko 2-3 meseca...tako da ako imate nekog u porodici ko je dosta vremena proveo van kanade, putovao u usa itd, bolje ga odvojite od ostalih jer moze da se desi da za svaki dan, datum traze obrazlozenje...i to moze da potraje godinu dana sa njihovom 3 meseca za odgovor prepiskom...inace cekanje moze da potraje od godinu dana na test pa do 4-5 da konacno dobijes papire ne racunajuci one prve 4 godine koje moras da provedes ovde da bi aplicirao.
Nazalost znam ljude koji su vec godinama zarobljeni u birokratiji a da nisu culi ni rec od njih, na svu srecu produzenje PR kartice je relativno jednostavno i kosta 50 $.
Mi smo se nazalost zaglavili u istoj situaciji.
Prvo smo dobili papire nazad posle 3 meseca od predavanja, pisalo je da su moja i acina aplikacija prihvacene ali za klinca ne jer nisam popunila gde je moje dete bilo prethodne 2 godine, ja naravno jesam sve popunila i 10 puta proverila ali su oni videli da je njemu istekao bebeci pasos koji traje 2 godine i nisu imali pokrice za one druge 2 za koje mu nismo vadili pasos jer nismo nigde isli, i kako ja sad njima da objasnim ? Morala sam da pisem i potpisujem izjavu da je moje dete bilo samnom, pobogu pa gde bi bilo...
E onda posle oko 4 meseca opet stizu svi papiri nazad, sad je neko prepravio da moja aplikacija nije prihvacena, pogadjate, nece da prihvate dokaz znanja jezika, 2 nedelje telefonskih razgovora i 5 agenata cica kasnije prijavljujemo testove...ajmo jovo nanovo.
Za sve to vreme aplikacija koja traje tacno devedeset dana, zastareva tako da sad moram da popunjavam nove papire i saljem nova dokumenta.Cim za jedno sredim, vrate mi za drugo, pa za trece i tako prodje godina...
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